Interview: March 30, 2010
Ginna: What kind of community did you grow up in?
Natalia: Uh, this is, uh, kind of “old believers” community. It is a kind of, um, a Christianity thing. You have to christ like with two fingers only — well, like this. Not like this.
G: You have to cross yourself?
N: Yeah, cross. Not christ. And, um, uh, so you should go to church regularly; Uh, pray regularly — like, several times a day… Well, they separate themselves from the outside world. Kind of Amish people or something. Well, but they’re more into civilization now, but those days it was — well, a little bit different. A little bit harder.
G: Harder to… ?
N: Just to maybe communicate with the others. So it was like, for example, uh, they were all, uh, white people and, um, now we have Asians too. So they didn’t, uh, really treat them equally, like equal human being or whatever.
G: So when you grew up, you lived in a village that was built around a religious…
N: Mostly, yes.
G: So you grew up with a strong sense of religion to the point where you were pretty much surrounded…
N: Mmm hmmm. Uh, yes. And then, I think when I went to the elementary school, the things sort of changed. You know, we had this Communist and Social Democratic society.
G: What year was that?
N: Uh, when I went to school? It was 1888, I guess.
G: Not “18…”! You know, you look good for someone who’s 120-something. [Both laugh]
N: I’m terrible with numbers. I must admit. So I’m always confused. So it was 1988.
G: Now in your country at that time… It was in the 90s that the USSR dissolved, right?
N: In 1991. Yeah.
G: So this was before that. So what’s the political climate at the time?
N: Well, like, uh, you know, elementary school students were called, um, Oktobres. — uh, well, ok, I’m not going to translate. Maybe I’ll just say it in Russian: октябрь. Well, from the name “October,” you know, our, eh, revolution and stuff, well [clears throat] and they were getting ready to… become “pioneers,” the so-called pioneers when they are… secondary school students. Yeah. And then, um, uh, high school students will be— will almost automatically become “komsimals” [need Natalia to fix spelling!] well, and then, you know, communists and stuff.
G: So your school system was structured in a way… based on your political system?
N: Oh, yeah. Well, everything was about politics, I’d say. So we all studied, like, the history of the communist party. Uh, Lenin was our… mmm… ideal and stuff. So everything was around that. But, well, I wouldn’t say that there were only negative sides of that. Like, mmmm… of this ideology. Uh, it was more about building a community. So, and that was good because everyone was supporting each other…. Yeah, [clears through], it was this kind of thing that the opinion of the collective is more important than of the individuals, so…. And we were all patriotic and we all thought our country was the greatest in the world, and, well, that, we strongly believed in that.
G: So, I don’t know very much about Russian history, you know, a little bit, but, um, as I remember the Communist regime was opposed to organized religion. Is that true?
N: Oh yeah.
G: So… so tell me… how, because you lived in a religious community—
N: Mmm hmmmm—
G: How did the two of those mesh? You’ve got this Communist, um, society but then you’re in a religious community.
N: Yeah. I mean, when I went to school I decided, uh, that I… I didn’t want to believe in God mys— well, I didn’t want to believe in God. Anymore. Uh, because, um, the Communist regime — regime, as you were saying — doesn’t approve of that? [Clears throat.] So then I kind of, uh, became sure that, well, God doesn’t exist and, nnnn, I should just, um, rely on myself, and rely on the party, r— well, not the party… YES, I’m talking about the political party… but not on some supernatural power. So…
G: That’s really interesting. So, there are a couple… Is this something that you don’t mind talking about?
N: No, I’m perfectly fine with that.
G: Okay. Um… I have a lot of questions. So… if you’re raised in a really religious environment—
N: Ummm hmmm?
G: What was the process for you of transforming from that to a… a really different belief system?
N: I think I just kind of just, like, denied it totally.
G: What did you deny?
N: Uh, religion. So. Because I liked the ideology of this Communist society more. [Clears throat.]…
• • •
N: I think I just completely denied God and took everything for granted that [?]. I simply didn’t have that [concept of God] any more. I should believe in myself and the Communist Party and that’s all… Since I was a child I wanted to see some proof of any of these ideas. I couldn’t see the God anywhere. I couldn’t see its magic. But I could see how our party worked. So.
• • •
G: Was this a big cultural turning point in your life?
N: I think it was a huge turning point but I think the next turning point , I think, was more important to me, and happened later. Well, with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Uh, when, uh… Well, I was so disappointed when I learned about it, and I still have these strong feelings of why… why— well, I mean — even now, when I’m talking about it, I still have this strong feeling, that, of disappointment. That when I knew that, uh… When I learned that our country is not as great as I was told, and we have basically… we don’t have this… great country any more at all. So it’s just Russia. And um, uh, the other negative thing about it was, um, so… We were told that all this Communist values, they didn’t matter any more .But we were not suggested anything instead. So basically we were the country with no values at all. Well, uh, some people came back to religion again. Well, yeah. Some people. Well, I didn’t want to go back to religion. And um, uh, I could see that all those Communist principles didn’t work. And I was so completely lost, and, uh, yeah… It was a huge crisis, in my country and, you know, in my personality as well…. At first it was a mental thing, and then it simply became a more physical thing: more just [survival].
• • •
N: And then when our country had to face all those issues, like hunger and crimes and, um, what else did I put there? Social inequality and stuff. Huge social inequality. We had very rich people who managed to start their business very quickly, and those people who were — well, like my family — there was one of those families that was basically, lost everything. Well, and we just [clears throat]… I remember we experienced hunger and, uh, so no clothes to wear. So absolutely… I remember that I didn’t have, like— maybe I got new, some new, uh, clothing when I finished the high school, probably. Uh, because, before this time, I was just wearing my sister’s old clothes, all the time, and I was crying and — you know, I can’t believe that… Well, I was blaming my parents because, you know, I was growing up. And all girls— well, almost everyone — were dressing up around me, so … and I was “why can’t our family afford that?”
G: Is that why you dress so nicely now?
N: Maybe. Uh, well, I’m absolutely sure that’s because of that… I think it’s something psychological that happened there, so…
G: Can you say a little more about that?
N: Well, um… I think, since it was a new world, like more of a material world, uh, then everyone around me wanted to get some material confirmation of their status and stuff, so I think I was [? susceptible?] as a teenager — but I couldn’t get it. I simply couldn’t get it. So when I got the opportunity to actually go and buy new clothes, I was just completely into it.
G: So, how did you get through this?
N: Oh… that was terrible. I mean, I think my school years — starting from the secondary school and all the way up to the high school… well, after the graduation from the high school: I think they were basically the worse years of my life. It was my childhood, but I think I would never want to go back and live this life again. No… I wasn’t treated equally by my peers, uh, because I didn’t have nice clothes to wear. And teenagers are cruel — especially girls. And I don’t think I had any friends in this period. Like, and those friends that I had didn’t want to show other people they are my friends. [Laughs.]